Love Your Neighbor. Even the Gay One. Especially the Gay One.
Love Your Neighbor—Even the Gay One (Especially the Gay One)
Every 45 seconds, an LGBTQ youth between the ages of 13 and 24 attempts suicide in the United States, according to the Trevor Project. These are our children—precious, beloved children. Yet more than one child every minute feels so hated, so despicable, so imperfectly made that they see no option but to end their own lives.
This isn’t just a theological debate—it’s a matter of life and death. By the time you finish reading this, several children will have attempted suicide because of the culture we’ve created. This is why this conversation matters. As Christians, it’s our responsibility to act with love and compassion, not condemnation and exclusion.
Why Address LGBTQ Issues in the Church?
This isn’t about “the gay agenda” or a cultural war—it’s about doing God’s will. Jesus commands us to love our neighbors, and yet the church has become a barrier for many people seeking God. We are literally standing in the way of God’s love for those who need it most.
During this discussion, I’ll address four key points:
- Christians should not judge non-Christians.
- The biblical case against homosexuality is weak and often misinterpreted.
- The pain caused by condemnation is real and contrary to Christ’s teachings.
- If I were Satan, I would use homophobia to divide the church and keep people away from God.
Let’s explore these points in depth.
1. Christians Should Not Judge Non-Christians
Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13: “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside.”
Paul is explicit: Christians have no moral jurisdiction over non-Christians. Civil marriage is a civil institution, not a religious one. Yet, many Christians advocate for laws that impose their beliefs on others. This directly contradicts Paul’s teachings and ignores Jesus’ command to love our neighbors.
Neighbors, in the context of Matthew 22:39, include everyone, not just fellow believers. Jesus said, “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you wouldn’t want your right to marry the person you love restricted, why would you deny that right to someone else? Loving your neighbor means treating them with the same dignity and respect you would want for yourself.
2. The Biblical Case Against Homosexuality Is Weak
The traditional arguments against homosexuality rely on a handful of passages: the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Levitical laws, and references in the letters of Paul. Let’s examine these more closely.
The Sin of Sodom
Genesis 19 describes the men of Sodom demanding to sexually assault two angelic visitors. Many interpret this as a condemnation of homosexuality, but Ezekiel 16:49-50 provides a different perspective: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.”
The sins of Sodom are explicitly listed: arrogance, greed, neglect of the poor, and inhospitality. The attempted assault in Genesis 19 is about violence and dominance, not consensual relationships. This is not a story about loving same-sex couples—it’s a story about a city’s wickedness.
Levitical Laws
Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 label same-sex relations as “detestable.” However, these laws are part of a larger purity code that includes prohibitions against eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics, and planting multiple crops in the same field. Christians have long abandoned many of these laws as culturally specific and irrelevant today.
Even the word “detestable” (to’eva in Hebrew) is worth examining. To’eva is used elsewhere in the Bible to describe idol worship, unjust practices, and even eating unclean animals (Deuteronomy 7:25, 12:31). It does not universally signify moral condemnation—it often reflects ritual or cultural prohibitions.
Paul’s Letters
Paul uses the Greek word arsenokoitai in passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10, which some translations render as “men who have sex with men.” However, this term likely refers to exploitative practices, such as sexual relationships between masters and slaves or other unequal dynamics, which were common in the ancient world. There is no evidence that arsenokoitai refers to consensual, loving same-sex relationships.
The broader context of these passages focuses on acts of lust, greed, and exploitation—not love. Paul’s audience would not have understood “homosexuality” as we do today; the concept of same-sex marriage or long-term, loving relationships did not exist in their culture.
Jesus on Marriage
In Matthew 19, Jesus refers to God creating male and female in the context of a discussion on divorce. This is often cited as evidence that marriage must be between a man and a woman. However, Jesus was addressing a specific question about divorce, not laying out a universal definition of marriage.
Furthermore, Jesus acknowledged that not everyone is called to traditional marriage. He speaks of eunuchs—those who are unable or unwilling to marry—as being accepted into God’s kingdom. This recognition of different life paths challenges the idea that all people must fit into a single mold.
3. The Pain Is Real, and It’s Not Loving
The impact of the church’s rejection of LGBTQ individuals is devastating. LGBTQ youth face disproportionate rates of depression, rejection, and suicide. Many grow up in churches that tell them their very existence is sinful, leading to feelings of unworthiness and despair.
If Christ’s teachings cause harm, they are being misapplied. Romans 13:10 states, “Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law.” When condemnation leads to such suffering, it cannot be the work of Christ.
4. Satan’s Strategy: Division Through Homophobia
If I were Satan, I couldn’t design a better strategy to drive people away from God than convincing the church to condemn LGBTQ individuals. This stance not only alienates LGBTQ people but also their friends and family. As a result, entire communities see the church as unloving and judgmental.
John 3:16 declares, “For God so loved the world…”—the whole world, not just the parts we approve of. God’s love is inclusive, and the church must reflect that inclusivity.
Addressing Critics: What About Sin?
Some argue that homosexuality is inherently sinful and that LGBTQ individuals must repent to be part of the church. But if this is the case, why are divorced and remarried individuals often accepted without question? Matthew 19 explicitly condemns remarriage after divorce, yet this teaching is frequently ignored.
All of us are sinners in need of grace. Excluding LGBTQ individuals from God’s love while excusing other sins is hypocrisy.
Conclusion: Love Is the Greatest Commandment
At the heart of Christianity is the call to love God and love our neighbors. Denying LGBTQ individuals the ability to love, marry, and belong is a failure to live out this commandment.
Galatians 3:28 reminds us, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” We are all equal in God’s eyes. It’s time for the church to live this truth.
If you’re wrestling with this issue or have thoughts to share, I invite you to reach out. Let’s engage in this discussion with humility, patience, and love. Together, we can reflect the inclusive, transformative love of Christ.
Key Points Discussed:
- Christians Should Not Judge Non-Christians:
- 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (NIV): "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked person from among you.'"
- The Biblical Case Against Homosexuality is Not Strong:
- We will examine three common arguments:
- Sodom and the fact that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality but arrogance, inhospitality, and cruelty.
- Leviticus, what Levitical laws are still relevant, and what those, as well as the ones that Paul references actually refer to.
- Matthew 19, and Jesus discussion on marriage, and how this is not a condemnation for homosexuality (but becomes pretty awkward for remarried Christians who claim homosexuality is a sin).
- The Real Pain and Suffering:
- LGBTQ youth facing high suicide rates due to rejection and condemnation.
- If I Were Satan, This Would Be My Plan:
- Using homophobia to drive people away from the church and Christ.
Relevant Bible Verses Cited:
On Not Judging Non-Christians:
- 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (NIV): Christians have no moral jurisdiction over non-Christians.
Traditional Arguments Against Homosexuality:
- Genesis 19:5 (NIV): The sin of Sodom.
- Ezekiel 16:49-50 (NIV): The true sins of Sodom.
- Leviticus 18:22 (NIV): "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
- Leviticus 20:13 (NIV): "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
- Romans 1:26-27 (NIV): Paul's discussion on shameful lusts.
- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 (NIV): "We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for the lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine."
Counterarguments and Inclusive Theology:
- John 3:16 (NIV): "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
- Romans 13:10 (NIV): "Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
- Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV): "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
- Galatians 3:28 (NIV): "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
- 1 John 4:7-8 (NIV): "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."
- Matthew 7:1-2 (NIV): "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Join us as we explore these important issues with compassion, understanding, and a desire to truly love our neighbors as ourselves. Whether you agree or disagree, this episode is meant to open up a dialogue that is crucial for the church today.
For feedback and discussion, email Michael at michael@guywhoknowsaguy.com. Share this episode with those who need to hear this message, and let's work together to build a more inclusive and loving church community.
Transcript
Every 45 seconds, an LGBTQ youth between the ages of 13 and 24
Speaker:attempts suicide in the United States, according to the Trevor Project.
Speaker:These are our children, our precious, beloved children, and, and more than one
Speaker:per minute feels they are so hated by the world, so despicable, so imperfectly
Speaker:made, that they feel that it is their best option to end their own life.
Speaker:Every 45 seconds.
Speaker:So the gay issue is not simply a theological question.
Speaker:It's a very important question.
Speaker:A question of life and death for hundreds of thousands of people.
Speaker:By the way, we're 45 seconds into this podcast, so if one tried when the podcast
Speaker:started, another one just tried again.
Speaker:This is why this is such an important issue and why I'm getting into it.
Speaker:I waited until episode 5 because I didn't want you to know
Speaker:me as The gay Christian guy.
Speaker:I'm not gay myself, many of my friends are.
Speaker:And some of my family is.
Speaker:But this is not about loving gays and the gay agenda.
Speaker:This is about doing Jesus will, doing God's will.
Speaker:Loving my neighbor.
Speaker:And so we're going to get into this issue because it is very important,
Speaker:and people are literally dying.
Speaker:It is also a powerful wedge issue that is keeping people away from the
Speaker:loving arms of God, and keeping them from embracing Jesus Christ because
Speaker:we are so obsessed with sexual purity that we keep people away from God.
Speaker:God is reaching out to them, and Christians are standing in the way.
Speaker:So during the course of this episode, I'm going to raise four points.
Speaker:That I believe I will justify.
Speaker:The first is that Christians should not judge non Christians.
Speaker:So when it comes to things like gay marriage, it's got
Speaker:none of the church's business.
Speaker:Second is the case against homosexuality in the Bible is weak.
Speaker:It is based on shooting the arrow and drawing a circle around the target.
Speaker:It's not based on saying, what does the Bible say about it?
Speaker:It's based on saying, I think gay stuff is gross.
Speaker:How does the Bible back me up?
Speaker:The third, as I mentioned, the pain is real.
Speaker:And thus, It's not love.
Speaker:When Christ's teachings cause pain to good people, they're not Christ's teachings.
Speaker:And fourth, I'm gonna wrap it up by saying, if I was Satan, this whole gay
Speaker:thing, the church hating homosexuality so much, and creating it as a wedge
Speaker:issue, would be my primary game plan to keep people away from Christ, and
Speaker:away from repentance and forgiveness, and away from the cross, and I'm not
Speaker:saying that it's Satan's plan that the church be homophobic, but I'm saying
Speaker:that if Satan were a walking, thinking entity, he couldn't do much worse
Speaker:than the strategies being followed.
Speaker:So first, Christian should stay out of gay marriage for non Christians.
Speaker:Why?
Speaker:12, 13.
Speaker:What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church?
Speaker:Are you not to judge those inside?
Speaker:God will judge those outside.
Speaker:Expel the wicked person from among you.
Speaker:Paul doesn't care what's going on outside the church.
Speaker:People in church are saying, Oh!
Speaker:Oh, this guy over here in the, in the temple of, uh, of Apollo or
Speaker:Ares or whoever is doing this thing.
Speaker:Paul says, I don't care.
Speaker:Don't worry about it.
Speaker:Don't worry about them.
Speaker:Worry about you.
Speaker:Don't worry about them.
Speaker:Marriage, civil marriage, is a civil institution.
Speaker:So, we're gonna get to, in a moment, why you should accept practicing gay
Speaker:people into your church, and why every reason you've heard not to isn't valid.
Speaker:And I'm going to argue those points.
Speaker:I imagine that I will get many emails with people refuting those points,
Speaker:and I look forward to that debate.
Speaker:But, outside the church, people who aren't in your church,
Speaker:You got no jurisdiction over.
Speaker:It's none of your darn business if they can get married or not.
Speaker:And, Jesus commands us to love our neighbors, not brothers and sisters.
Speaker:Brothers and sisters are people in the church.
Speaker:Neighbors are the whole world.
Speaker:Love your neighbors as yourself.
Speaker:Would you not want the right to marry the person you love?
Speaker:Whether or not it's a sin.
Speaker:Would you not want that right?
Speaker:Yes, you would.
Speaker:That's how you would love yourself.
Speaker:Love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker:So, for anyone outside the church, then there's no question about this.
Speaker:1 Corinthians 5, 12, 13 is very, very clear that Christians only
Speaker:have moral jurisdiction over other Christians, and even then, it's
Speaker:only if they all agree, and only if some other factors come into play.
Speaker:So, for Christians to be advocating for laws that affect non Christians
Speaker:that do not affect themselves is a blatant violation of the teachings
Speaker:of Paul and the teachings of Jesus.
Speaker:And I would very much like to hear someone refute that one because I haven't
Speaker:heard a single argument against that other than gay, bad, ew, ick, and gay
Speaker:marriage will somehow do something to the institution of straight marriage?
Speaker:Let me tell you, if your marriage is so weak that some gay person getting married
Speaker:over there is gonna affect your marriage over here, you don't need a priest, you
Speaker:need a marriage counselor and you probably need some more Jesus in your life.
Speaker:And if I sound upset about this, cause I am, we are now
Speaker:six minutes into the podcast
Speaker:and eight kids have tried to kill themselves while I was recording this
Speaker:because of what we're talking about.
Speaker:This is a big deal.
Speaker:It's also a big deal because a lot of those kids were raised in churches,
Speaker:then told that God did not love them because they were homosexuals.
Speaker:Which, again, that if you do that, there's no defense.
Speaker:There's no argument for gay bashing and hating people.
Speaker:None.
Speaker:Ever.
Speaker:No theologian who can begin to justify hate.
Speaker:But even the love the sinner, hate the sin stuff, Still puts them in the statistic.
Speaker:So is it a sin?
Speaker:Let's get into that.
Speaker:There's three arguments that I have heard for why it's a sin.
Speaker:One is the sin of Sodom.
Speaker:Two is Leviticus.
Speaker:And three is how Jesus defines marriage and thus adultery.
Speaker:And so let's discuss all three of them.
Speaker:Sodom.
Speaker:Sodom and Gomorrah, they are sinful cities.
Speaker:There's nasty stuff going on in there.
Speaker:There's this fascinating scene where God says to Abraham, I'm gonna blow up Sodom.
Speaker:And Abraham says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker:What if there's some good people in there?
Speaker:And God says, well, what do you mean?
Speaker:Abraham says, what if there's 45 good people in Sodom?
Speaker:And God says, alright.
Speaker:If there's 45 good people.
Speaker:I'll let it go.
Speaker:And Abraham says, well, you know, it'd be kind of silly to, to smash
Speaker:it because there's only 44, right?
Speaker:What if there's only 40 good people in Sodom?
Speaker:God's like, okay, fine.
Speaker:If there's 40, I'll let it go.
Speaker:And he goes all the way down, 35, 30, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 1.
Speaker:God agrees if there's one good person in the city of Sodom,
Speaker:he will not destroy the city.
Speaker:He'll spare the whole city if there's one good person.
Speaker:So, what does God do?
Speaker:God sends in investigators.
Speaker:He sends two angels.
Speaker:Now Lot is in Sodom.
Speaker:Apparently Lot is not of Sodom, he's just in Sodom, so he
Speaker:doesn't count as the good person.
Speaker:But Lot is in Sodom, and God sends the two angels to Lot's
Speaker:house to investigate the city.
Speaker:They're gonna stay there while they investigate the city.
Speaker:Now Sodom is such an awful place.
Speaker:That The Sodomites Hear that there's two new men in town Go to Lot's
Speaker:house, bang on the door, and say, Lot!
Speaker:This is Genesis 19.
Speaker:5 They called to Lot, Where are the men who came to you tonight?
Speaker:Bring them out to us, so that we can have sex with them.
Speaker:Ooh!
Speaker:That is a pretty bad city.
Speaker:That is a pretty rough place.
Speaker:Now here's the thing.
Speaker:A lot of people say, see, they're gay.
Speaker:I know a lot of gay people.
Speaker:And I am pretty sure not one of them has ever joined a mob of other gay
Speaker:people to go bang on someone's door and say, hey, your friend who's out
Speaker:of town, send him out here, because we're going to have our way with them.
Speaker:Not one, and I know dozens, hundreds, and I've never seen one do this.
Speaker:This is not a thing, maybe you don't know any gay people, so let me make this clear.
Speaker:This isn't a thing gay people do.
Speaker:This is a thing psychopaths do.
Speaker:This is a thing that, like, villains from movies do.
Speaker:This is not a thing that gay people in 2024 in America do.
Speaker:And by the way, when people do this kind of thing, because sometimes you
Speaker:do see this kind of behavior in prison, or in, um, military conflict zones
Speaker:and whatnot, it's not about being gay.
Speaker:It's about dominance.
Speaker:It is about, yeah, hey you, I'm going to show you who's boss by raping you.
Speaker:I'm going to completely dehumanize and embarrass you and you're going to know it
Speaker:because I had embarrassing sex with you.
Speaker:I used you as a thing.
Speaker:It's not about being gay.
Speaker:That's about power.
Speaker:But we can be confused about this.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Is it about homosexual behavior or is it about the lack of hospitality?
Speaker:Well, fortunately, the Bible goes on to explain what it's for.
Speaker:Ezekiel 16 49 50 says, Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom.
Speaker:She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned.
Speaker:They did not help the poor and needy.
Speaker:They were haughty and did detestable things before me.
Speaker:Now let's just take a moment to consider what the real Sins of Sodom, the
Speaker:explicitly stated Sins of Sodom were.
Speaker:Arrogant.
Speaker:Overfed.
Speaker:Unconcerned.
Speaker:Did not help the poor and needy.
Speaker:That's not ambiguous.
Speaker:That's not like, well, what do they really mean by that?
Speaker:They mean, they were rich, and they said, screw the poor.
Speaker:They were haughty.
Speaker:Which is another way of saying that same thing.
Speaker:Arrogant, haughty, overfed, unconcerned.
Speaker:These all mean the same thing.
Speaker:These all mean the same thing.
Speaker:These all mean that they were rich and arrogant and didn't care about the poor.
Speaker:Have you ever seen people be rich and arrogant and not care
Speaker:about the poor in modern times?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I call them sodomites.
Speaker:When I use the word sodomy, sodomy means being a rich
Speaker:person and spitting on the poor.
Speaker:Because that's what Ezekiel says right here.
Speaker:She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, unconcerned.
Speaker:They did not help the poor and needy.
Speaker:They were haughty.
Speaker:And did detestable things before me.
Speaker:Now some people say, well, the detestable things were homosexuality.
Speaker:Really?
Speaker:Where does it say that's what the detestable things were?
Speaker:How do you, how do you get that?
Speaker:So the word detestable is from the Hebrew to'eva.
Speaker:I've hopefully pronounced that well.
Speaker:And That word, Toeva, comes up in a number of places.
Speaker:Of course, it's in Ezekiel a few places.
Speaker:Now, it is in Leviticus 18.
Speaker:22.
Speaker:Do not have sexual relations with a man.
Speaker:As one does with a woman, that is detestable.
Speaker:And 20.
Speaker:13.
Speaker:The other, uh, anti gay verse in Leviticus.
Speaker:We'll get to Leviticus and if it's relevant in a moment.
Speaker:Um, if a man has sexual relations with a man, as the woman
Speaker:both have done, detestable.
Speaker:What?
Speaker:Keep in mind the context of Ezekiel.
Speaker:Here's the other place that comes up.
Speaker:Deutero 7 25, the images of their gods, you are to burn in the fire.
Speaker:Do not covet the silver or gold on them, and do not take it for
Speaker:yourselves or you'll be ensnared by it.
Speaker:For it is detestable to the Lord your God.
Speaker:The silver and gold on the idols is detestable.
Speaker:Deuteronomy 12 31.
Speaker:You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping
Speaker:their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates.
Speaker:They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
Speaker:They burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
Speaker:They sacrifice their sons.
Speaker:and daughters to their gods.
Speaker:I think another 45 seconds just went by.
Speaker:Deuteronomy 18.
Speaker:10 12.
Speaker:Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the
Speaker:fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
Speaker:or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritualist, or who consults the dead.
Speaker:Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, because these same detestable
Speaker:practices, the Lord your God, will drive out those nations before you.
Speaker:So, these are the different places where detestable appears.
Speaker:Now, Ezekiel, if we go back to Ezekiel, and what it actually said, Ezekiel
Speaker:says, The daughters were arrogant, overfed, unconcerned, they did not help
Speaker:the poor in need, they were haughty, and did detestable things before me.
Speaker:Now, does that sound like it aligns with, do not have sexual relationships
Speaker:with man, or that it aligns with, do not covet the gold and silver on them,
Speaker:and do not take it for yourselves.
Speaker:That seems to be the detestable that matches what we were just talking about
Speaker:Seems that way to me All right now Jude 1 7 Similarly says in a similar way Sodom
Speaker:and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality
Speaker:and perversion They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal
Speaker:fire Sexual immorality and perversion.
Speaker:What's that mean?
Speaker:Well, it means gay, right?
Speaker:Because I think gay is sexual immorality.
Speaker:Well, it's nice that you think that, but it doesn't say that God thinks that.
Speaker:It's what you think, and you bring your judgment to the Bible.
Speaker:So, maybe, it's plausible.
Speaker:It is something you could argue.
Speaker:You know, we can't clearly and definitively say it's not that way.
Speaker:We can't clearly and definitively say it is that way.
Speaker:But it's dubious.
Speaker:It's doubtful to me.
Speaker:And given the costs, that this belief has, dubious doesn't seem good enough
Speaker:for me to be sacrificing our children, which I've heard is detestable.
Speaker:So let's go to argument number two, Leviticus.
Speaker:Leviticus says, Leviticus 18.
Speaker:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman.
Speaker:That is detestable.
Speaker:Leviticus 20.
Speaker:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both
Speaker:of them have done what is detestable.
Speaker:They are to be put to death.
Speaker:Their blood will be on their heads.
Speaker:Leviticus 11, 7, 8 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud.
Speaker:It is unclean for you.
Speaker:You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses.
Speaker:They are unclean for you.
Speaker:Leviticus 19, 19 Keep my decrees.
Speaker:Do not mate different kinds of animals.
Speaker:Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
Speaker:Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of materials.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:We don't keep some of those.
Speaker:But, Do not.
Speaker:Leviticus 1911.
Speaker:Do not steal, do not lie, do not deceive one another.
Speaker:Leviticus 1918.
Speaker:Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people,
Speaker:but love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker:I am the Lord.
Speaker:So we have six passages here.
Speaker:Two of them say that A man sleeping with a man is detestable.
Speaker:Two of them say things that we no longer follow.
Speaker:And there's plenty of those, those are just two examples I grabbed.
Speaker:And two of them say things that sound a lot like what Jesus and
Speaker:Paul and the apostles teach.
Speaker:So how do we know which ones we still follow and which ones have been replaced?
Speaker:Now, a bunch of them, Jesus said, you have heard, and.
Speaker:This is how it is now.
Speaker:But, this particular issue is not brought up in that way.
Speaker:And so, we are left to look a different way.
Speaker:Now many of these are echoed.
Speaker:You know, do not steal, do not lie, do not deceive one another.
Speaker:We see that over and over and again.
Speaker:Where it justifies, uh, where it repeats that same thing.
Speaker:So we know it's carried forward.
Speaker:Love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker:That's the second part of the great commandment.
Speaker:So, we know that one's carried forward as echoed.
Speaker:Well, so we look at the letters of Paul, and we say, Ah!
Speaker:Well, three times, Paul echoes this rule, so we know it must be the case.
Speaker:Or do we?
Speaker:Let's look at them.
Speaker:Romans 1, 26 27.
Speaker:Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
Speaker:Even their women exchanged unnatural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
Speaker:In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were
Speaker:inflamed with lust for one another, men committed shameful acts with
Speaker:other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Speaker:Let's look at that one first.
Speaker:This is not Paul saying, these are things you can't do.
Speaker:This is Paul making a point.
Speaker:He said, hey, when you do bad things, you do more bad things.
Speaker:When you're not right with God, Then God's gonna give you up to all your other lusts.
Speaker:You know, you're out of his hands, he can't help you anymore.
Speaker:You're gonna do all kinds of bad stuff.
Speaker:So his audience already thought the stuff was bad.
Speaker:He was using this as an argument.
Speaker:So the causality of this argument is backwards.
Speaker:He is using this because they all agreed it was already bad, not
Speaker:because it's a biblical argument.
Speaker:But it also doesn't specifically say what kind of relationships these were.
Speaker:And the example I use is that Paul, whenever he refers to men having sex
Speaker:with men, the Greek word is arsenikatoi.
Speaker:And arsenikatoi means bedders of men.
Speaker:So, you'd be like, well, bedders of men, well that's pretty obvious,
Speaker:men who bed men, that's, that's gonna be, that's gay men, right?
Speaker:Well, is it?
Speaker:Imagine it's the future.
Speaker:Thousand years in the future, let's say.
Speaker:And the culture has swung back around and is now similar to the way Greek
Speaker:culture was with homosexuality.
Speaker:Now, Greek homosexuality was not two men loving each other and caring about each
Speaker:other and wanting to grow old together and create a family and do all the stuff that,
Speaker:you know, modern gay married couples do.
Speaker:Gay sex in ancient Greece was Very different.
Speaker:It was unequal.
Speaker:It was predatory.
Speaker:A lot of it was free men having sex with slaves or superiors having sex with
Speaker:inferiors, you know, a boss having sex with a subordinate or a captain military
Speaker:leader officer having sex with a soldier because it was not just gratification.
Speaker:It was also a form of domination.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So for this thought experiment, imagine it's the future.
Speaker:And the culture is like that again.
Speaker:And they're looking back at texts from our time.
Speaker:And they're reading things where it says homosexuality is perfectly
Speaker:fine and should be accepted.
Speaker:There's no reason children can't be exposed to homosexuality.
Speaker:They should learn about it.
Speaker:We should all accept it.
Speaker:Homosexual families are the same as ordinary families.
Speaker:Now, homosexual just means same sex, right?
Speaker:People have sex with the same sex.
Speaker:So it's similar to a word like arsenicotoy.
Speaker:Except they would read it in their context.
Speaker:And they would say, Holy m these guys are savage!
Speaker:They're saying that it's totally okay for superior men to just grab inferior
Speaker:men and have their way with them.
Speaker:Dang!
Speaker:Because they'd be reading it in their language.
Speaker:Paul didn't say men who have sex with men in a way that abuses the power
Speaker:dynamic because he didn't have to.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Arsenic a toy was understood at the time to mean that kind of icky thing.
Speaker:There was no gay marriage in ancient Greece.
Speaker:That didn't happen.
Speaker:It wasn't even a concept.
Speaker:So when gay sex was happening, it was being done out of lust, not love.
Speaker:And any sex that is lust and not love is sinful.
Speaker:Because it's sinful.
Speaker:It is not loving your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker:It is using a person as a thing.
Speaker:Anytime you do that, that's sinful, no matter what gender the perpetrator is.
Speaker:So, there you go.
Speaker:But, they're not talking about the kind of gay couples that we have today.
Speaker:It's a very different concept.
Speaker:Um, now we also have 1 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will
Speaker:not inherit the kingdom of God?
Speaker:Okay, so this one is actually saying, here's some people who are
Speaker:not inheriting the kingdom of God.
Speaker:This is a bit more of a prescription.
Speaker:Do not be deceived.
Speaker:Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men
Speaker:who have sex with men, arsenic and toy, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor
Speaker:drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Speaker:All right, we just discussed what that term means.
Speaker:Look at the context.
Speaker:Sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who have sex with men.
Speaker:These are all people who are doing things for their own gratification
Speaker:out of lust and not love.
Speaker:Uh, they are not right with God.
Speaker:Sexually immoral is breaking the second half of the great commandment.
Speaker:Idolaters, first half.
Speaker:Adulterers, second half.
Speaker:And Are Seneca Toi, in this sense, also in that theme?
Speaker:In context, it is clear.
Speaker:They are people breaking the great commandment because they are having
Speaker:sex with men out of lust and not love because there is no context
Speaker:of loving gay sex in that culture.
Speaker:And last one, 1 Timothy 9.
Speaker:10 We also know the law is made not for the righteous but for the
Speaker:lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious.
Speaker:For those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the
Speaker:sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and
Speaker:liars and perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.
Speaker:And again, if we see the context of this, he's talking about a
Speaker:certain kind of gay relationship.
Speaker:He's not talking about the kind of relationship that we see today.
Speaker:Arsenicatoi, the word he's using, means something different than gay or
Speaker:homosexual or lesbian as we mean it today.
Speaker:It's a very different concept, and we're not talking about the same kind of people.
Speaker:Now again, is this 100 percent bulletproof, ironclad, 12
Speaker:out of 12 jurors would agree?
Speaker:Not necessarily.
Speaker:But where's the burden of proof?
Speaker:When one child every 45 seconds is trying to kill themselves because the culture
Speaker:that the other belief has created Hmm.
Speaker:I am placing the burden of proof on Those who would create such a cost in such
Speaker:division from the church to prove without a shadow of a doubt that it is worth the
Speaker:deaths and isolation of All these children and all these people who are otherwise
Speaker:completely innocent many of whom are completely faithful And, I think there's
Speaker:too much doubt to be worth that cost.
Speaker:But let's look at the third one.
Speaker:Jesus himself!
Speaker:Alright, Jesus said some things here.
Speaker:Matthew 19, 4 6 Haven't you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator
Speaker:made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his
Speaker:father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.
Speaker:So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Speaker:Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.
Speaker:In the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this
Speaker:reason A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
Speaker:and the two will become one flesh.
Speaker:See?
Speaker:God created marriage to bring a man and a woman together.
Speaker:That's why they're together.
Speaker:Oh, before I go on, let me just read this one here.
Speaker:What's it say?
Speaker:Matthew 7, 3, 5.
Speaker:And why beholdest thou the mote in thy brother's eye, but considerest
Speaker:not the beam in thine own eye?
Speaker:Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, let me pull out the mote of thine eye,
Speaker:and behold the beam in thine own eye?
Speaker:I don't know why I used the King James translation for that one, but, just, um,
Speaker:just wanted to bring that up for a second.
Speaker:Okay, what were we talking about?
Speaker:Right, in the middle of the passage where Jesus says divorcing someone is
Speaker:committing adultery, And that as long as you're divorced from them, you're
Speaker:in a state of sin, and if you marry someone else, you're in a permanent
Speaker:state of sin, that is irredeemable because you're not repenting from it.
Speaker:He says, God made them male and female, and for this reason, they'll
Speaker:leave their mother and father to become one, so they can be one flesh.
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:Okay, so, what we are saying here is that, uh, clearly, Divorce is
Speaker:the same level of sin as being gay.
Speaker:This is kind of key, because a lot of the people who are telling me
Speaker:that being gay is a sin are divorced.
Speaker:Except, there's an exception, if your spouse is sexually immoral, so
Speaker:cheats on you, or does immoral stuff.
Speaker:A little fuzzy what that means, as we've discussed, but there's that
Speaker:But most of the people I know who are telling me that Being homosexual is
Speaker:a sin, and means they can't be in the church, are divorced and remarried and
Speaker:not for reasons of sexual immorality.
Speaker:Sooooo?
Speaker:Interesting there, that's just a, just a thing.
Speaker:If you're divorced, and not because your spouse cheated on you or did
Speaker:something sexually immoral, I'd tread very carefully in this argument
Speaker:And a non repented sin, which means that you are not eligible for the
Speaker:kingdom of heaven, being divorced, is also a sin of the same kind.
Speaker:And that gets kind of fraught and messy.
Speaker:We don't talk about that much, do we?
Speaker:But, here's the thing.
Speaker:God did make them male and female, originally, in the Garden of Eden.
Speaker:when there were two of them.
Speaker:Because without there being male and female, there couldn't be more of them.
Speaker:There'd be no Cain and Abel if they weren't male and female.
Speaker:And he did say be fruitful and multiply.
Speaker:But he said that when there were two of them.
Speaker:And he said that to Abraham when it was one family.
Speaker:And he said it to Isaac when it was one family.
Speaker:And he said other times when they needed lots of numbers.
Speaker:But that was at a specific time.
Speaker:And we are not in that time.
Speaker:We're not short of numbers.
Speaker:We don't need to.
Speaker:mate and reproduce and progenate more Jews or more Christians or more people.
Speaker:We got plenty of people.
Speaker:So this is not a be fruitful multiply time.
Speaker:We don't need that anymore.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:There's always been a context when he said that.
Speaker:So that's where the male and the female came from.
Speaker:But here's the thing.
Speaker:This is another one similar to Romans, where this is a point in a larger point.
Speaker:Let's read the whole passage, shall we?
Speaker:We'll start at 1903.
Speaker:Some Pharisees came to him to test him.
Speaker:They asked, is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?
Speaker:Haven't you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them
Speaker:male and female and said, For this reason a man will leave his father
Speaker:and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.
Speaker:So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Speaker:Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.
Speaker:Why then, they asked, did Moses command that a man give his wife a
Speaker:certificate of divorce and send her away?
Speaker:Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because
Speaker:your hearts were hard, but it was not this way from the beginning.
Speaker:I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and
Speaker:marries another woman commits adultery.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:So this is part of a larger argument.
Speaker:He is using what is commonly known.
Speaker:It is commonly known that God made men and women.
Speaker:He's not saying this is God's law.
Speaker:I'm telling you right now.
Speaker:We already know this.
Speaker:We look around.
Speaker:That's a man.
Speaker:That's a woman.
Speaker:That's a man.
Speaker:That's a woman.
Speaker:He's using a common fact.
Speaker:And then he's saying they'll leave their father and mother.
Speaker:That's the culture at the time.
Speaker:He's not saying this is how it should be done.
Speaker:It's saying that's what they do.
Speaker:This is what you did.
Speaker:This is what you did.
Speaker:This is what you did.
Speaker:He is establishing common ground known facts before getting to the place
Speaker:where he is about to take a left turn.
Speaker:Made the male and female.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:With you so far, that happened.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Man will leave his mother and father to be united with his wife.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:I've seen that.
Speaker:There'll be one flesh.
Speaker:Got it.
Speaker:One flesh.
Speaker:That's what marriage is.
Speaker:That's all about.
Speaker:They are no longer two, but one flesh.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:They're one bank account.
Speaker:They're one house.
Speaker:They're household.
Speaker:They're one family name.
Speaker:They're one flesh.
Speaker:Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.
Speaker:So again, he is possibly, these are the, this is the evidence.
Speaker:The thesis he's bringing together is you can't get divorced.
Speaker:The evidence he's bringing to that is these other things which are
Speaker:not being proven or justified.
Speaker:They're simply being accepted because they're already accepted.
Speaker:In other words, he's not declaring them here.
Speaker:He is referring to them and thus that means they are cultural standards
Speaker:and not necessarily God's laws.
Speaker:Now, by the way, and this is going to come up in a future episode, it goes
Speaker:on where the disciples say, well, if that's the case, you can't get divorced.
Speaker:Wouldn't it be better just not to get married at all?
Speaker:Jesus replied, Not everyone can accept this word, but only
Speaker:those to whom it has been given.
Speaker:For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been
Speaker:made eunuchs by others, and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs
Speaker:for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
Speaker:The one who can accept this should accept it.
Speaker:Interesting, so some people are born a certain sexual structure, and some
Speaker:people are born a different sexual structure, and some people choose to
Speaker:live as a different sexual structure God made them when they were born.
Speaker:That reminds me of something.
Speaker:But not what we're talking about today.
Speaker:Uh, but that will come up again.
Speaker:In the future.
Speaker:So every one of the arguments against homosexuality is inferred.
Speaker:Implied.
Speaker:Or, likely outdated.
Speaker:We've got Leviticus.
Speaker:where the only reason why we believe that rule would come forward is implications
Speaker:in some of Paul's letters, where the words, the translations being used are
Speaker:dubious, where one of them, it is the evidence presented and not the conclusion,
Speaker:and that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker:And then, you know, the third one is, is similar.
Speaker:And then we've got the one about marriage again, it's
Speaker:where the evidence is presented.
Speaker:I want to just go into that just for a moment in case that's not clear.
Speaker:So, often when making an argument, you will start with, can we agree that?
Speaker:Yes, yeah, we can agree that.
Speaker:So, can we agree that grass grows really fast?
Speaker:Yes, we can agree that grass grows really fast.
Speaker:Well, because of that, I need to mow the lawn every week.
Speaker:Now, if we were to then encounter a plant, grass That was a grass that grew slowly.
Speaker:You wouldn't say, well, this plant can't exist.
Speaker:We agreed.
Speaker:The grass grows fast.
Speaker:It's stipulated.
Speaker:It's a stipulation for the sake of argument.
Speaker:You cannot use a stipulation as evidence.
Speaker:So I just wanted to explain that a little more clearly that where
Speaker:the epistemology of this is.
Speaker:So everything that says.
Speaker:that homosexuality is detestable, is a sin, keeps us from God, is a little dicey.
Speaker:It is explicitly clear that being divorced and remarried is a sin.
Speaker:Uh, it, it, I definitely read that section of Matthew 19 to say, if you're
Speaker:remarried, To join the church and be in alignment with Jesus, you need to divorce
Speaker:your second wife, who you never really married in the first place, because you
Speaker:couldn't be divorced from your first wife.
Speaker:So, that's explicitly clear.
Speaker:That's what Jesus is explicitly saying.
Speaker:So, if we're not accepting that, and if you're divorced, then that's, that's an
Speaker:issue that, uh, you need to work with.
Speaker:That, that's really explicit.
Speaker:But I'm not claiming, well maybe I'll get into that one another time,
Speaker:about divorce and is that an issue or whatnot, what happens if a woman
Speaker:divorces you, and that's a whole nother question we're not getting into.
Speaker:But, that's what Jesus is explicitly saying in Matthew 19, and it's pretty
Speaker:unmistakable, and it's saying if you can't deal with marrying one
Speaker:person and staying with them forever, then you better just pretend to
Speaker:be a eunuch and not get married.
Speaker:So, interesting.
Speaker:But what does Jesus say explicitly?
Speaker:Because remember, What is at risk here?
Speaker:Every 45 seconds, a child tries to kill themselves because of this
Speaker:homophobic culture because they believe they're not good enough.
Speaker:Not only that, but how many good people stay away from the
Speaker:church because of homophobia?
Speaker:Because they've been taught they're not good enough, either homophobic
Speaker:or some other form of biblical abuse.
Speaker:and biblical malfeasance and biblical malpractice.
Speaker:But many of them, there are many people who stay away from the church
Speaker:because of just this one issue.
Speaker:And as I said in the beginning, if I were Satan and I would say, I want
Speaker:to do one thing that will keep the most people out of the church and
Speaker:away from Christ and away from his lessons, what's the one thing Satan
Speaker:could get the most leverage on.
Speaker:He'll make the church espouse that being gay and acting gay is a sin.
Speaker:Being gay is not a sin.
Speaker:Acting gay is a sin.
Speaker:No one, well, no one who's theologically sound says being gay is a sin.
Speaker:But doing gay things.
Speaker:So that doctrine is basically saying being gay If you're gay, if you're born
Speaker:gay, which is about one tenth of the public, one tenth of the population,
Speaker:if you are one out of ten people, then you cannot be married, you cannot
Speaker:have a loving long term relationship, you cannot have sex in any way.
Speaker:You just have to deal with it.
Speaker:You gotta live like a eunuch.
Speaker:You need to pretend you're a eunuch for the rest of your life
Speaker:because you were given the wrong programming when you were born.
Speaker:And yes, it is when they're born, It is much harder to prove a temporal fact than
Speaker:a biblical fact, but if you know any gay people and have had serious conversations
Speaker:with them, yeah, they're born that way.
Speaker:Read some of their stories, talk to, get to know one, talk
Speaker:to them, they're born that way.
Speaker:You talk to some of the preachers who get it, even the conservative ones who
Speaker:don't disagree with me and say it's a sin, they still believe they're born that way.
Speaker:Born gay, choose to act gay.
Speaker:All right, this is a largely undebatable fact.
Speaker:So, Again, Satan's playbook.
Speaker:Let's make the Christians believe that what the Bible says is that being gay,
Speaker:acting gay is a sin and that 10 percent of the population will have to live
Speaker:like a eunuch to be aligned with God.
Speaker:Well, that pretty much pushes that 10 percent right out the door.
Speaker:Who's going to join a church that says the way that you would
Speaker:like to love and marry is sinful?
Speaker:And these people have friends.
Speaker:Friends who know them and love them and know they are good people,
Speaker:and know they live by the great commandment, and know they live
Speaker:in love and live in God's spirit?
Speaker:And then you're telling them, nah, they're sinners.
Speaker:Well, if each of them has two friends, now we're at 30 percent
Speaker:of the population that will never walk into a church because of this.
Speaker:Dang!
Speaker:That is a slam dunk for Mr.
Speaker:Satan.
Speaker:For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that
Speaker:whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Speaker:John 3.
Speaker:16.
Speaker:We hear this a lot.
Speaker:This is the big one.
Speaker:This is the one that's on the bumper stickers.
Speaker:We love John 3.
Speaker:16.
Speaker:For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that
Speaker:whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Speaker:God wants everyone to have an express ticket to heaven to live
Speaker:with him forever in eternal life.
Speaker:And so he gave Jesus so that we could repent of our sins, which we
Speaker:are constantly creating, because we are always missing the mark,
Speaker:as I shared in the last episode.
Speaker:And then, he allowed one out of ten people to be born in a way that
Speaker:would that it would be a hundred times more difficult for them to live
Speaker:their entire lives in repentance.
Speaker:I think he would have gotten more people into heaven if he'd skipped the Jesus
Speaker:thing and just skipped the gay thing too.
Speaker:Don't you think?
Speaker:It doesn't make sense.
Speaker:It's not consistent.
Speaker:God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son.
Speaker:The whole world, not 90 percent of it, not 70 percent of it, the whole world.
Speaker:The nice people, the mean people, the tall people, the short people, the
Speaker:beautiful people, the ugly people, the straight people, and the gay people.
Speaker:He loved the whole world.
Speaker:And I don't think he laid a trap where one set of people, one tenth of
Speaker:the world, a tithe of the population would not be able to get into heaven
Speaker:because it would be so much more difficult for them than for anyone else.
Speaker:Romans 13 10.
Speaker:Love does no harm to a neighbor.
Speaker:Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law.
Speaker:That's clear.
Speaker:Matthew 22 36 40.
Speaker:Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
Speaker:Jesus replied, Love the Lord God with all your heart and all
Speaker:your soul and all your mind.
Speaker:This is the first and greatest commandment and the second is like it.
Speaker:Love your neighbor as yourself.
Speaker:All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.
Speaker:It starts here.
Speaker:This is the constitution of the commandments.
Speaker:The constitution of the law is these two commandments.
Speaker:Which of these are you abiding when you tell one tenth of the population
Speaker:that they can never have love, they can never have marriage, they can never
Speaker:have family, and that is what they have to do to get into God's good graces.
Speaker:Is that loving God?
Speaker:Is that loving your neighbor?
Speaker:Is it?
Speaker:There's a few others that are, uh, relevant.
Speaker:These don't prove one way or the other, but I think they set the tone.
Speaker:Galatians 3, 28.
Speaker:There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is
Speaker:there male or female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ.
Speaker:We're all people.
Speaker:We're all souls.
Speaker:Wandering around in bodies.
Speaker:1 John 8 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God.
Speaker:Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
Speaker:Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Speaker:So at the very least, at the very least, if you believe that
Speaker:homosexuality is a sin, if you believe that somebody cannot repent if they
Speaker:are continuing to live a homosexual lifestyle, you still have to love them.
Speaker:If you're not at least doing that, you're a homophobe.
Speaker:You're not a Christian.
Speaker:You're a homophobe.
Speaker:Because you're not living in God's law.
Speaker:The clear part!
Speaker:Love your neighbor.
Speaker:Then Matthew 7, 1, 2, Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Speaker:For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.
Speaker:And with the measure you use, it will be used to measure you.
Speaker:Don't judge.
Speaker:Now some people say, it's not judging.
Speaker:Alright, I'm not, I'm not judging gay people.
Speaker:I am informing them that they are in a state of sin, and we cannot allow them
Speaker:to be fully involved in the church, just like an active heroin user couldn't be
Speaker:fully involved in the church, or someone committing adultery couldn't be fully
Speaker:involved in the church, because they're actively and unrepentantly sinning.
Speaker:And so someone who is gay is actively and unrepentantly sinning.
Speaker:Well, your church darn well better not allow divorcees in, because they're
Speaker:actively and unrepentantly sinning too.
Speaker:So aside from that hypocrisy, if the church is allowing divorcees
Speaker:to be active members, but not gay people, because these are the same
Speaker:level of sin, if that argument is valid, we're all sinners in some way.
Speaker:And this is what set this argument apart.
Speaker:I heard a very good argument for this that Being gay, gay sex, is the same
Speaker:as any other sin, whether it's wrath or pride or doing drugs or, uh, theft
Speaker:or having killed someone or whatever.
Speaker:If the sin is in the past, you can get redemption, you can atone
Speaker:for it, you can't atone for a sin, you're still gonna commit.
Speaker:You have to say, alright, it's a sin, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna do it anymore.
Speaker:Go and sin no more.
Speaker:And that if you are gay, you're gonna keep gaying, so you're gonna keep sinning.
Speaker:But I would argue Having gone through all of those, that none of those arguments
Speaker:are so solid as to convince me those people should be kept out of God's love.
Speaker:Especially when, on the other side, people are literally killing themselves.
Speaker:They are being murdered.
Speaker:People following this doctrine, people who are not as mentally developed and
Speaker:educated as I and you, and others who are actually studying the law and studying the
Speaker:Bible, are simply taking this message and being like, Oh, we should kill gay people.
Speaker:That's what it says in Leviticus.
Speaker:And then they do it!
Speaker:People are killing people because of this misinterpretation.
Speaker:People are killing themselves because of this misinterpretation.
Speaker:Read some of the stories from gay people before gay marriage was legalized.
Speaker:Read the stories about lifetime partners who could not sit at the
Speaker:bedside of their dying partner who they'd been with for 40 years because
Speaker:they were not considered family.
Speaker:Read the stories of children taken away from loving homes.
Speaker:Because of judgment.
Speaker:And remember, everything I just shared the last 40 minutes, or 45 minutes in, by the
Speaker:way, that means 60 children have tried to kill themselves while I've recorded this.
Speaker:Let's not forget that.
Speaker:Everything I've shared in the last 40 whatever minutes is all about if gay
Speaker:people can be in communion with Christ.
Speaker:Because at the beginning, they can.
Speaker:1 Corinthians 5, 12, 13 said, what business is it of mine to
Speaker:judge those outside the church?
Speaker:Christians have no jurisdiction outside the church.
Speaker:And marriage, civil marriage, is a civil institution, not a religious institution.
Speaker:So the question of, should gay people be beaten to death on the
Speaker:street, pretty sure is settled.
Speaker:I think we should know that.
Speaker:Love Your Neighbors Yourself pretty much answers that.
Speaker:Should gay people be allowed to get married?
Speaker:It's a civil institution The church has nothing to do with that.
Speaker:Now, maybe you think it's icky.
Speaker:That's fine.
Speaker:You can say I think it's gross I don't want it.
Speaker:Okay, fine, but don't use the Bible to back it up because the Bible didn't
Speaker:back you up the only question the only debate is should gay people Who
Speaker:are otherwise doing nothing wrong?
Speaker:Otherwise faithful.
Speaker:Otherwise atoning and accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior just like you
Speaker:do just like I do Hmm Should they be invited into God's community or should
Speaker:they be kept outside because the way God built them to love is disagreeable?
Speaker:That's the only question.
Speaker:And that's a weird question when you ask it that way, isn't it?
Speaker:So I bet a lot of you have opinions about this and I look forward to hearing them.
Speaker:My email address is michael at guywhoknowsaguy.
Speaker:com And before you start writing, I'll remind you of Ephesians 4
Speaker:1 3 as a prisoner for the Lord.
Speaker:Then I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.
Speaker:Be completely humble and gentle.
Speaker:Be patient bearing with one another in love.
Speaker:Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace.
Speaker:Paul would like us to discuss these topics without calling each other names.
Speaker:If you feel the need to call me names.
Speaker:I can't stop you.
Speaker:It's a free country and you can send me those messages and that'll be between
Speaker:you and God because it won't hurt me.
Speaker:But if you'd like to have a discussion, if you'd like to point out where my logic
Speaker:falls apart, I would love to hear it.
Speaker:If you'd like to thank me for sharing this, I would love to hear it.
Speaker:I encourage you to share this message and I especially encourage you to share
Speaker:this message and people in your life who are asking, would God accept me?
Speaker:I'm Gay.
Speaker:Would God accept me?
Speaker:I was born this other way.
Speaker:Will God accept me?
Speaker:I will in future episodes talk about uh, transsexuality And I will be talking
Speaker:about other topics along those lines as well But I do encourage you anyone, you
Speaker:know who is gay and especially if they are gay and faithful if they are gay
Speaker:believers and wrestling with how to how to Deal with those two things where they
Speaker:they know in their heart that they god made them gay But they are told that that
Speaker:makes them a sinner I encourage you to share this message with them, because not
Speaker:a lot of people are talking about this.
Speaker:I was actually researching, trying to find other people sharing this kind of message.
Speaker:And I went through YouTube, couldn't find a video on it.
Speaker:Couldn't find one.
Speaker:And so, please do share this with those who need to hear it.
Speaker:Uh, and if you disagree, share it too!
Speaker:Everyone can share it.
Speaker:This is a message to be out and discussed.
Speaker:Alright, like nailing 95 theses on the door of the church.
Speaker:In case you don't know, Martin Luther wasn't protesting anything.
Speaker:The door of the church was the bulletin board of the town.
Speaker:If you wanted something to be disputed, you'd nail it up on the
Speaker:door, and anyone who disagreed with you would then nail up a response.
Speaker:So, I'm nailing this to the door of the church.
Speaker:And I'd love to hear your response.
Speaker:So, thank you for listening.
Speaker:Again, you can reach back out to me at michael at guywhoknowsaguy.
Speaker:com And, uh, then you can always Uh, share this message as well.
Speaker:I ask God to bless every one of you, whether you agree with me or disagree
Speaker:with me or think that I am speaking the words of Satan himself or believe
Speaker:that I am speaking the words of Jesus himself because we are all brothers and
Speaker:sisters in Christ and we are all called upon to love and cherish one another.
Speaker:So God bless you all.
